George Up to his Old Tricks Again!!

Rednekcowboy

Owner
Staff member

When it's pointed out that Vmedia has a very permanent and very heavy-handed throttling policy implemented, George magically appears with this reply:

I am sorry about your experience, I don't know when you were with us, but at no time are any technical ITMP measures employed that would affect most internet use, including Netflix and Youtube, though impacts may be felt with less time-sensitive use such as torrenting and large file downloads.
This is a complete out and out lie. Netflix and Youtube are both limited at Vmedia. Netflix is limited to 6Mbps and Youtube cannot consistently deliver a HD stream during Primetime without buffering. If you have more than one user on separate devices using either of those services, forget about having a usable experience at all. This is not to mention that all streaming services are completely handicapped during this 5 hour window EVERY SINGLE DAY. OS updates (windows, android, ios, etc), game console updates and game downloades (ps, xbox, nintendo, etc), file sharing services (torrent, file hosts, etc) are all COMPLETELY unusable during the most important time of day--just after work until well after most people go to bed. Basically anything with the exception of their own IPTV service is crippled, regardless of the tier of internet service you subscribe to. Whether it's their cheapest plan or their most expensive plan, your connection is basically useless to what you want to use it for every single evening until midnight.

I have no idea how Vmedia has managed to get away with, what some may or could feel or call, this fraudulent behavior--I can only assume because any unhappy customers simply ditch their service and move on without filing a complaint and going through the convoluted process with the CRTC but, make no mistake about it, VMedia is in direct violation of CRTC regulations on multiple fronts:

1. ITMP is only to be used as a temporary measure and they are obligated to purchase enough capacity to serve it's userbase. If they are short one month, they are allowed to implement ITMP to cover the temporary shortfall--that is it.

2. They are not allowed to pick and chose what gets priority. ie they cannot limit Netflix to 6Mbps (which is what they do) and allow their own IPTV service unfettered access.

3. Furthermore, they cannot use ITMP to the point that it makes any activity unusable. So bittorent, updates (os, ps, xbox, android and ios) are all throttled on their service to a such a point that they could be classified as unusable during their ITMP window. 4K netflix also falls under this as the max you can do is the lowest range of 1080p. If you have multiple netflix users on different devices--you can forget about even that much quality.

4. Even if, by some miracle, they managed to get permission to have a permanent ITMP policy in place in perpetuity (which is required under the CRTC regulations), they have to clearly define exactly what is affected and exactly how those services are degraded in their TOS on their website and have to inform users prior to them subscribing to their services--which they do not do--as you can see by the outright deception provided by Mr. Burger in the statement quoted.

I have been critical of IISP's of late, however I have always been a proud supporter of them. It is companies like Vmedia that tarnish the reputation for all IISPs in the market today--even the good ones like Start, Tek and Ebox. People will try out their service, get this bullcrap and then figure every IISP operates in the same fashion and then go back to an Incumbent--and then tell all their friends and family how terrible the IISP is.

On top of that, you have the Director of Vmedia coming out in public and telling bold-face lies in an attempt to cover up their devious practices.

I have 1 question for you Mr. Burger--what do you think is going to happen when someone believes your bullshit, signs up for your service and then finds out the truth? Stop the lies and actually provide the service that your customers spend their hard-earned cash to pay for. Stop scamming decent, hard-working Canadians. The people of this country deserve some honesty and integrity in the companies they deal with and as an IISP, you have an obligation to do just that instead of riding the coat-tails of companies like Tek and Start that garnered the good reputation you are summarily destroying with your under-handed tactics.

It is one thing to be honest and upfront about your policies and give your potential customers the right to decide for themselves but being deceptive and outright lying to people in the hopes that the upfront costs of signing on with your company will garner a few months of extra revenue completely destroys any faith or reputation the previously mentioned companies worked so hard for decades to build. It is absolutely disgusting and appalling of you and Vmedia to use such tactics knowing full well how much damage you are causing to all IISP providers as a result.
 
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dillyhammer

Administrator
Staff member
I don't know a) how they get away with this, and b) how they manage to keep any customers. I suppose such heavy-handedness would have the effect of whittling away all the power users and tech-savvy users - people that would notice the adverse reactions to the throttling and be vocal about them.

I also don't know the actual capacity Mr. Burger operates under, but the CEO/Owner of VMedia - assuming it's not Burger - would do well to put a muzzle on him. Just about everything that comes off his keyboard is either bullshit, offensive, or both.
 

Davesnothere

Administrator
Staff member
I feel the need to play the role of devil's advocate for a moment.

What if they are not throttling, but instead just not buying enough bulk capacity ?

Could what is being reported just be symptoms of congestion during peak demand periods ?

Sometimes the symptoms of the two conditions can mimic one another.

OK, not buying enough capacity COULD be construed as a type of ITMP, I suppose it might be arguable.

But what if their pockets are not deep enough anymore (after how that court case went against them) to afford to keep buying enough capacity to handle peak hours ?
 

Rednekcowboy

Owner
Staff member
I feel the need to play the role of devil's advocate for a moment.

What if they are not throttling, but instead just not buying enough bulk capacity ?

Could what is being reported just be symptoms of congestion during peak demand periods ?

Sometimes the symptoms of the two conditions can mimic one another.

OK, not buying enough capacity COULD be construed as a type of ITMP, I suppose it might be arguable.

But what if their pockets are not deep enough anymore (after how that court case went against them) to afford to keep buying enough capacity to handle peak hours ?
With the exception of now they are "partially" admitting to throttling during primetime as per their discussion in that thread at DSLR and what I quoted....

They are delibrately using ITMP to reduce the amount of traffic on just about every activity other than their own IPTV service in an effort to cirumvent purchasing enough capacity to serve their userbase. I have provided 4 points where they are in direct violation of CRTC regulations and they have been doing this much longer than their court battle with Bell.

In any event, even if they are cash-strapped, then they should not offer certain packages that they know full well they cannot afford to provide.

The CRTC regulations in regards to ITMP policies are very clear, precise and specific and George, more than anyone, knows them specifically as he, along with Tek, Start, Paul and Ebox fought very hard to put them in place when the incumbents were pulling this very same type of activity. This is what makes George Burger's and Vmedia's actions all the more dispicable as he was involved in the fight to end this very type of traffic shaping and was very vocal about how wrong it was when it was the Incumbents doing it.
 

HiVolt

Junior Member
Staff member
And besides, the CBB rates were significantly lowered around 2 years ago now? Most larger TPIA's have almost completely eliminated capped plans now, and are also offering TV services.
 

Davesnothere

Administrator
Staff member
And besides, the CBB rates were significantly lowered around 2 years ago now? Most larger TPIA's have almost completely eliminated capped plans now, and are also offering TV services.
~
Some recent rate comparisons which I have made (among established TPIAs) suggests that those which have chosen to only offer unlimited usage for a given tier and incumbent are charging almost the same for unlimited as the TPIAs which ALSO offer capped plans for the same tier and incumbent.

Although the spread between capped and unlimited plans is considerably less than it used to be before the interim CBB rates were established by the CRTC (did they ever finalize them ?), I am suggesting that TPIAs which ONLY offer unlimited usage plans these days for some or all speed tiers (including my own TPIA) would appear to be engaging in a money grab from customers who do not use very much data.

I am such a customer, and have remained on a grandfathered capped plan for the past 3 (IIRC) service plan revisions in order to avoid this situation.

And just because the above-mentioned spread is not as wide as it used to be does not negate my observation - It only reduces it somewhat.
~
 

HiVolt

Junior Member
Staff member
~
Some recent rate comparisons which I have made (among established TPIAs) suggests that those which have chosen to only offer unlimited usage for a given tier and incumbent are charging almost the same for unlimited as the TPIAs which ALSO offer capped plans for the same tier and incumbent.

Although the spread between capped and unlimited plans is considerably less than it used to be before the interim CBB rates were established by the CRTC (did they ever finalize them ?), I am suggesting that TPIAs which ONLY offer unlimited usage plans these days for some or all speed tiers (including my own TPIA) would appear to be engaging in a money grab from customers who do not use very much data.

I am such a customer, and have remained on a grandfathered capped plan for the past 3 (IIRC) service plan revisions in order to avoid this situation.

And just because the above-mentioned spread is not as wide as it used to be does not negate my observation - It only reduces it somewhat.
~
I agree, which is why I was vocal against TekSavvy when they ditched the 200/400GB plans from their 25/50 VDSL tiers, making it unlimited only. Also forcing the dryloop in the price is convenient for most, but some still have a landline and could save the fee. I've always been on a capped plan with TSI, because I was always using secondary Bell logins for my actual leeching. I saved a few bucks, and saved TSI the CBB fees.

Anyway, TekSavvy is gone, I've cancelled after nearly 12 years (April 7, 2007).

Bell renewed my gigabit fibe discount (ongoing, non expiring $20 credit), switched to the 1G/750 plan (from 1G/1G - I don't care for the upload drop), so I have no reason to hold onto TSI for the forseeable future. Even if they get gigabit, I'm sure it will be a rough ride for a while until they get enough, capacity etc...

I was holding onto it seeing if I bell was gonna give me a hard time, I might have to cancel and follow thru with it to get a deal. But Bell loyalty called me a couple days ago, and after telling them right off the bat that I don't want any bundles, they proceeded to offer me the deal which I accepted.
 

Rednekcowboy

Owner
Staff member
I agree, which is why I was vocal against TekSavvy when they ditched the 200/400GB plans from their 25/50 VDSL tiers, making it unlimited only. Also forcing the dryloop in the price is convenient for most, but some still have a landline and could save the fee. I've always been on a capped plan with TSI, because I was always using secondary Bell logins for my actual leeching. I saved a few bucks, and saved TSI the CBB fees.

Anyway, TekSavvy is gone, I've cancelled after nearly 12 years (April 7, 2007).

Bell renewed my gigabit fibe discount (ongoing, non expiring $20 credit), switched to the 1G/750 plan (from 1G/1G - I don't care for the upload drop), so I have no reason to hold onto TSI for the forseeable future. Even if they get gigabit, I'm sure it will be a rough ride for a while until they get enough, capacity etc...

I was holding onto it seeing if I bell was gonna give me a hard time, I might have to cancel and follow thru with it to get a deal. But Bell loyalty called me a couple days ago, and after telling them right off the bat that I don't want any bundles, they proceeded to offer me the deal which I accepted.
After I was done with Paul and Zazeen I tried very hard to stay with a TPIA. I transitioned to Distributel, which was by no way seamless as other users have reported. At the same time, i gave old Georgie an honest to goodness shot and he, with his big mouth and incompetent email skills screwed up that one and then i even went to Ebox after that and stayed with them for over a year--over-paying by almost doubly what I would with an Incumbent just so I could still support a TPIA.

I don't know what it is, most likely the pinch of being forcefully removed from the competitive market place via unrealistic tariffs and being locked out of the FTTH/FTTP market (another hit against them was just issued with Telus that states they no longer have to provide wholesale access to legacy products) but all TPIA's seemingly have gotten to the point where they forgot that it's their customer service that garnered them loyal customers that would support them through thick and thin. I was told, more than once by Ebox that issues I reported weren't important enough for them to care about (almost literally word-for-word what I was told) and this was after I spent my own time to go to their offices and troubleshoot issues I found with one of their devs and never asked anything in return. Then when I went to cancel, I returned my equipment and they refused to accept the hdmi cable I brought and gouged me another $10 for not bringing back their dollorama special. Every month I had billing issues and it ended up costing me, on average, around $300/month for tv, internet and home phone that should have been costing me half that but there were always hidden charges on the bill. On top of that, they would send out automatic emails every month, 15 days before your invoice was due, threatening to cut your services if they did not RECEIVE your payment by the due date. IE if you paid via internet banking on the 30th, they may not receive your payment from the bank for 5 business days and would cut your services as a result.

It's stupid shit like that costing them customers now. When you are desperate for business you don't start treating your customers like shit.

At any rate, none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand. Yes, I agree it is a fine line and a very tight balance sheet for TPIA's but there are very clear and specific guidelines on what they are allowed to do and not to do and what Vmedia is, and has been doing non-stop is very clearly against regulations--AND HE KNOWS BETTER as he was a major party involved in drafting those very rules.

Again, screwing over customers, outright lying and conducting unethical and deceptive business practices is not the way to resolve the current situation but it is an extremely proficient way of ensuring the demise of the only real telecom competition this country has.

All the TPIA's are so busy fighting with each other and trying to screw each other over, they have lost sight of the end goal. IPTV is a perfect example. Everyone of the TPIA's could have gotten together and signed peering arrangements so no matter what potential customer went with whatever TPIA, the could get any IPTV service. Instead they all came out with their own in order to gain what, a .025 percent market share of the cable sub market? What kind of fucking sense does that make? Instead of coming together, they are all pitted against each other--which is exactly what the Incumbents wanted. Now they have their buddy as chair and cheif because the TPIA's were too busy with their internal bickering to put up a relevant fight against it and he is continually sliding favorable decisions for the Incumbents in simply because the TPIA's are too wrapped up in their own drama to take notice.

If it keeps up this way, it won't be long until all we have is Robellus and the likes of Ebox, Tek and Start are defunct simply because they were too petty and selfish to see the writing on the wall.
 

HiVolt

Junior Member
Staff member
Yeah, TekSavvy has started turning into a cookie cutter ISP, ignoring their roots. Though I had no problems cancelling via DIrect Forum, I gave them a brief explanation as to why and it seems like they didnt even care. some newbie rep replied and none of the long time reps even chimed in after I thanked them for years of good service and support, and the fight for consumer rights etc...

As for EBox, I truly never got a good vibe from them on DSLR. But I guess they cater to their French customers and probably dont care much for the rest.

Start.ca seems like the only one focused on customer service (The way TekSavvy used to). That's the one thing I appreciated about TekSavvy all this time, is that the big boss was always present on DSLR and you could get something done, first Rocky then Marc, until he quit DSLR last year.
 

Davesnothere

Administrator
Staff member
....Start.ca seems like the only one focused on customer service [these days]....
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Yet they too have disco'd capped plans on almost all tiers, and as well AFAIK are bundling dry loop fees whether their DSL customers need one or not.

I do not believe that they are throttling though, which is more on-topic for this thread.
~
 

HiVolt

Junior Member
Staff member
I don't think they are. I think they had some sort of a system in place when the CBB rates were high, but I don't know if anyone was ever affected by it. Certainly not to the extent that VMedia's is affecting people to this day, according to reports.

I truly would have liked to get a hand on a VMedia login, and given it a test myself.
 
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